Hey Guys,
I will post section 5 this weekend. Is anyone having trouble posting? Gabe mentioned he can only comment on other people's posts. Let me know if you cannot post to the blog. There should be an option to create new blog post. I look forward to going through the second half of the book together.
Take care, alan.
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Friday, July 18, 2008
Thoughts on Section 4
Al, Jason, Gabe, others:
Just finished section 4. So much about this book is hitting me in so many ways its tough to blog out a few simple points. Al your question/reflection on how you've been guilty of buying into the peace through domination is applicable to my life as well. Its actually applicable to all the world that operates by the framing story that is anything other than finding power in the sacrificial ways of Jesus. I've liked the few places where he talks of hearing/reading Jesus with 1st century ears/eyes. There is so much we misread about the bible because we're applying it to our world, versus trying to understand the world in which it was first delivered to. As some of you know, I start Fuller this fall, just taking a few classes and walking down the road towards understanding what God is leading me towards. I'm hoping some classes focus on teaching the context of Jesus' world. I know that in Christian circles, we're always warning about "contextualizing too much"....reducing Jesus truth if we apply to our world now. But I really want to contextualize backwards, and understand more of scripture as it is reflected on the world in which it was first delivered to.
Loved the quote on 132 (to me the whole essence of the book):
"this mutual embrace-God embracing our pain and ugliness, and humanity embracing God's mercy and beauty- creates the possibbility of a new beginning where we stop working against God. Instead of pursuing our own selfish dreams-whether they are individual, ethnic, religous, political, economic, or national- we seek for God's dream for creation to come true, and we are restored to our place in God's sacred ecosystem."
I don't know about you guys, but I long to be restored into God's image for me...peeling back the sin I've written into my own story, peeling back the pride and lust and selfishness, and revealing how God truly made me.
The rest of the section flowed well for me and didn't open up a whole lot. I get it...I need a new framing story. I get it...as a follower of Christ I must identify with the true Jesus, strip him down with all the crap our church and country have burdened him with, and seek His plan in this world.
It is easy to read this book and feel like a failure. Although this is good for me to grow and change and push towards new discoveries, I also felt encouraged this morning. I am on my journey. I am writing a new story. I am seeking the authentic Jesus. And that feels pretty great right now.
How about you guys? How is this affecting you? Jason how do you put all this into your dental practice?
Al, how will you coach with this in mind?
Gabe how will this affect your business decisions?
Anyone else reading this?
Just finished section 4. So much about this book is hitting me in so many ways its tough to blog out a few simple points. Al your question/reflection on how you've been guilty of buying into the peace through domination is applicable to my life as well. Its actually applicable to all the world that operates by the framing story that is anything other than finding power in the sacrificial ways of Jesus. I've liked the few places where he talks of hearing/reading Jesus with 1st century ears/eyes. There is so much we misread about the bible because we're applying it to our world, versus trying to understand the world in which it was first delivered to. As some of you know, I start Fuller this fall, just taking a few classes and walking down the road towards understanding what God is leading me towards. I'm hoping some classes focus on teaching the context of Jesus' world. I know that in Christian circles, we're always warning about "contextualizing too much"....reducing Jesus truth if we apply to our world now. But I really want to contextualize backwards, and understand more of scripture as it is reflected on the world in which it was first delivered to.
Loved the quote on 132 (to me the whole essence of the book):
"this mutual embrace-God embracing our pain and ugliness, and humanity embracing God's mercy and beauty- creates the possibbility of a new beginning where we stop working against God. Instead of pursuing our own selfish dreams-whether they are individual, ethnic, religous, political, economic, or national- we seek for God's dream for creation to come true, and we are restored to our place in God's sacred ecosystem."
I don't know about you guys, but I long to be restored into God's image for me...peeling back the sin I've written into my own story, peeling back the pride and lust and selfishness, and revealing how God truly made me.
The rest of the section flowed well for me and didn't open up a whole lot. I get it...I need a new framing story. I get it...as a follower of Christ I must identify with the true Jesus, strip him down with all the crap our church and country have burdened him with, and seek His plan in this world.
It is easy to read this book and feel like a failure. Although this is good for me to grow and change and push towards new discoveries, I also felt encouraged this morning. I am on my journey. I am writing a new story. I am seeking the authentic Jesus. And that feels pretty great right now.
How about you guys? How is this affecting you? Jason how do you put all this into your dental practice?
Al, how will you coach with this in mind?
Gabe how will this affect your business decisions?
Anyone else reading this?
Sunday, July 13, 2008
Section 4
Hey Guys,
I watched "Kite Runner" last night and the movie has troubled me throughout the day today. On many levels, the movie touches on issues that keep hitting me from this book. How do I live knowing that such terrible suffering exists and even more so how can I do anything to help ease the suffering of others as it happens literally on a daily basis on such a huge level. I don't usually cry hard at movies, but the tragedy of this boy's life and the grace with which he still lives was powerful and profound. Let me know if you have seen the movie and your reflections.
Chapter 15: This reoccuring theme is so dominant both in our lives today and throughout history that I wonder how we will ever escape its grasp. The world (especially the powers of the world) generally have a view of peace that can only come through domination or the removal of the other/enemy. Think about our entire lives...first dictated by growing up in the Cold War and knowing with absolute certainty that the communists were bad. Communism falls, but peace still alludes because violence still persists and now the threat is terrorism. If we can only get rid of the terrorists than peace can be achieved. This logic is laughable considering human nature and I can't believe I bought into for so long. Until we get out of an us vs. them mentality we will continue to see the good news as ours and somehow not theirs, unless they of course come over to our side. I really like the paragraph by Francois Fenelon on war and needing to see the big "us". Thoughts/reactions?
Chapter 16: This is short but interesting section. In truth our society profits from making others poor. If we go back to the cyclical processes that put people and keep people in poverty we can see how the west ever since the days of industry have profited from slave or forced or extremely cheap labor. The bottom line mentality of our economic system forces this to happen. Can our society run effectively focusing more energy on employment than profit? These are questions some people, especially in the green movement are asking concerning environmental impacts.
Chapter 17: Sacred...a good word that could help us transform how we see the earth, our roles as citizens in this earth and our call to be stewards of God's good message of hope. Is this section too optimistic? Could it really be that different than it's been in the past? If so, how can we help move people to this more sacred understanding?
Chapter 18: Which Jesus? This is a good question because for so many of us we can simply substitute a new understanding and then call it good. My challenge lies with continually being open to know that Jesus is always and will always be bigger than my understanding. I've had to eat some serious crow for some of the changes that I am making in my own life, but this part of the humility necessary to let Jesus mold and shape us in new ways to bring about his message of hope to the world.
The final section reflecting on King's sermon prior to being assassinated was great. "I make all things new"...God is saying but we don't always want things new or different from what they have been. And the challenge on us to be the agents of change brining this new message of God is hard for us because it puts us in a vulnerable position against the prevailing culture. I pray for courage for us all to answer the various challenges God is laying on our hearts to be people proclaiming truly "Good news". Love and peace to you all, alan.
I watched "Kite Runner" last night and the movie has troubled me throughout the day today. On many levels, the movie touches on issues that keep hitting me from this book. How do I live knowing that such terrible suffering exists and even more so how can I do anything to help ease the suffering of others as it happens literally on a daily basis on such a huge level. I don't usually cry hard at movies, but the tragedy of this boy's life and the grace with which he still lives was powerful and profound. Let me know if you have seen the movie and your reflections.
Chapter 15: This reoccuring theme is so dominant both in our lives today and throughout history that I wonder how we will ever escape its grasp. The world (especially the powers of the world) generally have a view of peace that can only come through domination or the removal of the other/enemy. Think about our entire lives...first dictated by growing up in the Cold War and knowing with absolute certainty that the communists were bad. Communism falls, but peace still alludes because violence still persists and now the threat is terrorism. If we can only get rid of the terrorists than peace can be achieved. This logic is laughable considering human nature and I can't believe I bought into for so long. Until we get out of an us vs. them mentality we will continue to see the good news as ours and somehow not theirs, unless they of course come over to our side. I really like the paragraph by Francois Fenelon on war and needing to see the big "us". Thoughts/reactions?
Chapter 16: This is short but interesting section. In truth our society profits from making others poor. If we go back to the cyclical processes that put people and keep people in poverty we can see how the west ever since the days of industry have profited from slave or forced or extremely cheap labor. The bottom line mentality of our economic system forces this to happen. Can our society run effectively focusing more energy on employment than profit? These are questions some people, especially in the green movement are asking concerning environmental impacts.
Chapter 17: Sacred...a good word that could help us transform how we see the earth, our roles as citizens in this earth and our call to be stewards of God's good message of hope. Is this section too optimistic? Could it really be that different than it's been in the past? If so, how can we help move people to this more sacred understanding?
Chapter 18: Which Jesus? This is a good question because for so many of us we can simply substitute a new understanding and then call it good. My challenge lies with continually being open to know that Jesus is always and will always be bigger than my understanding. I've had to eat some serious crow for some of the changes that I am making in my own life, but this part of the humility necessary to let Jesus mold and shape us in new ways to bring about his message of hope to the world.
The final section reflecting on King's sermon prior to being assassinated was great. "I make all things new"...God is saying but we don't always want things new or different from what they have been. And the challenge on us to be the agents of change brining this new message of God is hard for us because it puts us in a vulnerable position against the prevailing culture. I pray for courage for us all to answer the various challenges God is laying on our hearts to be people proclaiming truly "Good news". Love and peace to you all, alan.
Friday, July 11, 2008
Friday July 11 Section 3
1) What struck you as you compared the conventional view of Jesus' good news to the emerging view? It is obvious that McLaren favors the emerging view, but I wonder what we each thought about his comparison. Is he being fair or unduly one sided?
It is a good question Al. After reading this, it fits into so many of the challenges I've had with the American church...the way we do ministry...the way we live out our faith. I love on 83 where he says, I believe we need to face the real possibility that the conventional view has in many ways been domesticated, watered down, and co-opted by the dominant framing story of our modern Western culture and has become a gospel about Jesus and not the gospel of Jesus." How else do we explain the prosperity gospel? The notion that as believers we can pray for abundance and riches and wealth and that somehow is as far as our faith can take us. Meanwhile people are dying in the 3rd world, dying in America, or dying emotionally in our churches but it is business as usual for us as Christians. This isn't right.
2) Chapter 11 was a short look at the competing narratives that existed in Jesus' time. I found it interesting because it explains well how various groups within a society often go about working under/against the controls of the dominate societal machine. I also like that the message of Jesus offers a drastically different option from all the other various narratives.
I loved his discussion here on dual narratives. It is obvious that I've been missing so much about the bible as I read it through the lens of our current culture and not seeing things how Jesus experienced them. That discussion on 110 about the relevance of Jesus asking "who do you think I am?" in a city like Cesarea Phillipi is awesome. I never really got the significance of that discussion...never got how radical that was. And personally, I often and easily fall into the trap of dual narratives. I have my spiritual conversation going on that has me reading the psalms but then can turn around and treat someone poorly, act selfishly or callous, feed sexual desires about alpacas (err...did I say that out loud?) etc. I love on 90 when he boils down the radical nature of Jesus life: "Don't let your lives be framed by the narratives and counternarratives of the Roman empire..but situate yourselves in another story...the good news that God is king, and we can live in relation to God and God's love rather than Caesar and Caesar's power."
Loved the Box Metaphor on 91...the problem isn't Christ...the "deeper problem is how weren't not accurately seeing or hearing what's out there." That is good stuff...stuff to keep me looking for the truth in my own life.
4) Which of the gospels excerpts did you find most interesting? Profound? Confusing? Let's try and discuss one or two of these.
I really was empowered on 99 when he again paraphrases Jesus scandalous message: "The time has come! Rethink everything! A radically new kind of empire is available-the empire of God has arrived!....Open your minds and hearts like children to see things freshly in this new way, follow me and my words, and enter this new way of living."
Is this how you guys are operating right now? A radical new way of living? Rethinking everything?
I sure as heck am not. My life doesn't look much different than my non-christian friends. But I want this to change. I want my life to embody this radical new empire...but how? But when? How do I live with a new framing story while still living firmly in our culture? Anyone got suggestions on this?
It is a good question Al. After reading this, it fits into so many of the challenges I've had with the American church...the way we do ministry...the way we live out our faith. I love on 83 where he says, I believe we need to face the real possibility that the conventional view has in many ways been domesticated, watered down, and co-opted by the dominant framing story of our modern Western culture and has become a gospel about Jesus and not the gospel of Jesus." How else do we explain the prosperity gospel? The notion that as believers we can pray for abundance and riches and wealth and that somehow is as far as our faith can take us. Meanwhile people are dying in the 3rd world, dying in America, or dying emotionally in our churches but it is business as usual for us as Christians. This isn't right.
2) Chapter 11 was a short look at the competing narratives that existed in Jesus' time. I found it interesting because it explains well how various groups within a society often go about working under/against the controls of the dominate societal machine. I also like that the message of Jesus offers a drastically different option from all the other various narratives.
I loved his discussion here on dual narratives. It is obvious that I've been missing so much about the bible as I read it through the lens of our current culture and not seeing things how Jesus experienced them. That discussion on 110 about the relevance of Jesus asking "who do you think I am?" in a city like Cesarea Phillipi is awesome. I never really got the significance of that discussion...never got how radical that was. And personally, I often and easily fall into the trap of dual narratives. I have my spiritual conversation going on that has me reading the psalms but then can turn around and treat someone poorly, act selfishly or callous, feed sexual desires about alpacas (err...did I say that out loud?) etc. I love on 90 when he boils down the radical nature of Jesus life: "Don't let your lives be framed by the narratives and counternarratives of the Roman empire..but situate yourselves in another story...the good news that God is king, and we can live in relation to God and God's love rather than Caesar and Caesar's power."
Loved the Box Metaphor on 91...the problem isn't Christ...the "deeper problem is how weren't not accurately seeing or hearing what's out there." That is good stuff...stuff to keep me looking for the truth in my own life.
4) Which of the gospels excerpts did you find most interesting? Profound? Confusing? Let's try and discuss one or two of these.
I really was empowered on 99 when he again paraphrases Jesus scandalous message: "The time has come! Rethink everything! A radically new kind of empire is available-the empire of God has arrived!....Open your minds and hearts like children to see things freshly in this new way, follow me and my words, and enter this new way of living."
Is this how you guys are operating right now? A radical new way of living? Rethinking everything?
I sure as heck am not. My life doesn't look much different than my non-christian friends. But I want this to change. I want my life to embody this radical new empire...but how? But when? How do I live with a new framing story while still living firmly in our culture? Anyone got suggestions on this?
Thursday, July 10, 2008
Interesting Link
Hey Fellas,
The blog world has slowed down a bit, but I wanted to post section four stuff this weekend. Are people ready to digest the next section? Let me know and I will post.
I totally agree with this link in that too few of the Christians in the media or more traditional "Religious Right" groups have mistakenly made the Christian faith something unapproachable and without much grace for much too long. I am voting for Obama and while I wish he was against abortion, I am glad he is for other things that my faith tells me are important...reaching out to those in need, ending the cycles that continually disadvantage many while only benefitting a few, and leading with a sense of humility regarding oneself and optimism about the what the many can do in unity together. I am excited to push through this book even if it takes us longer than this summer. I actually already finished, but I enjoy rereading sections as we comment through the sections.
Take care, alan.
The blog world has slowed down a bit, but I wanted to post section four stuff this weekend. Are people ready to digest the next section? Let me know and I will post.
I totally agree with this link in that too few of the Christians in the media or more traditional "Religious Right" groups have mistakenly made the Christian faith something unapproachable and without much grace for much too long. I am voting for Obama and while I wish he was against abortion, I am glad he is for other things that my faith tells me are important...reaching out to those in need, ending the cycles that continually disadvantage many while only benefitting a few, and leading with a sense of humility regarding oneself and optimism about the what the many can do in unity together. I am excited to push through this book even if it takes us longer than this summer. I actually already finished, but I enjoy rereading sections as we comment through the sections.
Take care, alan.
Tuesday, July 8, 2008
Something to look at
Guys
Sorry for my delay in responding to Section 3...it is coming soon. But first, check out:
http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/
An interesting site created by a pastor who is fed up with Dobson and his cronies speaking for all christians and has decided to endorse Obama. Whether you like Obama or not (I do) check out the site and let me know what you think.
It seems Christians are re-engaging in the political and social process in ways we havne't before. We're not simply staying put in our "voting block" but instead using the gospel to interpret the world and our actions in new ways.
Talk to you soon,
Scott
Sorry for my delay in responding to Section 3...it is coming soon. But first, check out:
http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/
An interesting site created by a pastor who is fed up with Dobson and his cronies speaking for all christians and has decided to endorse Obama. Whether you like Obama or not (I do) check out the site and let me know what you think.
It seems Christians are re-engaging in the political and social process in ways we havne't before. We're not simply staying put in our "voting block" but instead using the gospel to interpret the world and our actions in new ways.
Talk to you soon,
Scott
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